Nursing Chat-May 13,2020- Students
Nursing Chat-Transcript
May 13, 2020
donnerwheeeler
Janice Waddell: I'm Janice Waddell. I've, been working with Gail and Mary and
Donner and Wheeler for, 30 years.
And my work with, Gail Mary has really been
in supporting students and new graduate nurses, in their career development,
both within their education and also as, on graduation. And I'm also a faculty
member in the Daphne Cockwell school of nursing at Ryerson university. Just
wanted to give a big welcome to those of you who are participating at tonight
and the 10 plus observers who are behind the scenes.
And, to remind you that it will be
recorded. So the conversation today will be posted on donnerwheeler website.
Amy, did you want to introduce yourself.
Amy Vodarek: I'm Amy and I, I've known, well, Gail and Mary actually were mentors
of mine. And, and way back, I met Gail way back when I worked at sick kids and
she was working there guiding nurses in their careers at that time. And then I
met Mary and Mary guided me into coaching.
And I've done work with donnerwheeler since
then.
So over the last 10 years, I've been
working in the coaching and career and leadership development capacity in
healthcare, I also teach at McMaster's, so that's why I'm partnered here with
Janice. I teach leadership and management in, the nursing program at Mac, the
undergrad program.
Great.
Janice Waddell: I just wanted to. Give you a sense of why, let's talk, let's chat.
Chat for nurses was created at this time. We really, as Donner and Wheeler at
large, wanted to provide their students with the opportunity, to, to talk about
what it's like for, for all of us right now.
And for you in particular as students,
undergraduate students, I mean, you can tell a little more about yourself.
Spring. in a, in a moment, but together and share our experiences as nurses, as
nursing students during this pandemic. And also to offer one another, some
support and encouragement, some strategies, some ideas as we, we navigate this
experience together.
So it's a very informal conversation. And
I, our priority is to hear from you.
So, Amy, I'll pass them on to you.
Amy Vodarek: we just want to learn from you what your experiences have been like
during this time. it's just so important that we are heard as nurses, you are
heard as nurses and. And so what I invite you, I'd just go around and invite
each of you to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about, you know,
where you're working or where you are in your educational program and if you're
working.
and we'll just start with that. And maybe
Jean-Claude since you, you joined us first, we'll just begin with you,.
Jean-Claude
Fillion: hello. My name is Jean-Claude. Fillion.
I'm actually a student in practical nursing. I'm in my last semester, we
completed our classes, but just need to do clinical placement, before
graduating.
So we're just waiting on, not at the
moment. I'm currently not working in directly with COVID-19. Like in the
present time. but it's the COVID-19, pandemic still has a certain effect on,
students that, are not currently working, but they're at home. So we can talk
about that later on if you'd like more in detail.
But yeah, that's a little bit about me. my,
I guess my academic, pathway would be to proceed further after practical
nursing. So, I'll talk a little bit about that later on as well on, some of the
situations of challenges, during the pandemic as well.
Amy Vodarek: Thank you.
Alicia, how about you? Would you like to
introduce yourself and a little bit about, where you are with your education?
Alicia Kassee : Yes. Hi everyone. My name's Alicia. I work at Toronto general in the
emergency department. I've been there for about five years since June. I'm
currently doing my master of nursing program at Ryerson.
I'm in the, thesis stream. Thesis and
leadership stream so, I'm right now, I'm kind of in the research phase of my
program, I guess. I agree. It's kind of on hold a little bit because of COVID,
I've kind of had to adapt what I'm currently doing to reflect the current
health, the current environment, or does it get my, research going and in the
meantime, I'm working in the emerge dealing with COVID patients.
So that's always interesting.
Amy Vodarek: Yeah, I'm sure we're going to have a good conversation. Thank you.
And Lois.
Lois Chui: Hello. Hi, my name is Lois. I'm also in the masters program, in the
course based stream, in the leadership stream. I currently work at McMaster
children's hospital in Hamilton where I live. and then concurrently I'm doing
my summer, my spring summer courses for the master's program.
So the online courses have actually been a
nice break from work throughout this time of COVID.
Amy Vodarek: So the first question I have, and, and we'll just sort of see how
many questions we get through is how are you doing during this time?
Jean-Claude
Fillion: I would say that I'm handling the, the
current situation quite well, better than when it first happened. I would say
diet, there's always an adjusting period in any situation, and I certainly feel
like I've adjusted quite well and rapidly. but being, around the media and just
observing what's happening out there, it's, It's still making it feel like it's
a little bit surreal. but in terms of myself and how I'm feeling, I would say
that I'm currently doing good enough, being that we're staying at home and like
not having as much social interactions in person. Yeah. So I would say that I'm
doing quite well for the certain circumstances.
Amy Vodarek: Okay. Thank you. Alicia and Lois.
Alicia Kassee : As of right now, I think I'm adapting to this new normal of COVID.
it's just so you're, I think this will be ongoing for quite some time and just
adapting to the new policies and everything that's changing on a daily basis.
Well, used to be last month, but now we're pretty stable in terms of what's
going on.
Otherwise, I think I'm coping okay. I think
I just need to adapt to, "Hey, this is the way life is going to be for at
least a couple months." As for what we're hearing in the media and what
we're seeing in terms of the numbers of new cases. Just trying to adapt as
best I can. I think.
Lois Chui: I think when COVID first started happening in March, I did a lot of
baking and cooking.
Like, I think many people have been in.
I've since had to, stop doing that a little bit. but working in the pediatric
population, specifically upon a surgical unit, we've actually been having, Low
census, just because of all the cancellations and delays for, surgeries,
especially elective surgeries.
so I'm interested to see how, when, when,
COVID regulations start to release, how that'll affect the backlog surgery's
happening over the summer.
Amy Vodarek: Yeah, definitely. That's a big unknown, isn't it?
Janice Waddell: We're also wondering, you've all indicated that right now things
are going okay. It's, it's smooth, lots of adjustments, but you're kind of
getting into the big groups, so to speak. So what kind of challenges, if you
have had, what are, what are the challenges or the difficulties that you have
experienced at this point?
Jean-Claude
Fillion: Okay. I will describe my challenges
there's a few of them that I can actually name. well I can say that, exam in
order to graduate our program, just knowing that I need to study, for. All of
the material that we learned in the past two years of the program of practical
nursing. I find it very challenging to do that and these circumstances of a
pandemic, it certainly has a big influence on my dedication, my drive, and my
passion towards, studying.
I would say that. also, having a little bit
of like moments of like a little periods of feeling low. Or like, it's kind of
like a grieving process that we've been going through, like with the pandemic.
So I feel like I'm slowly getting out of that, by, it has like been a challenge
at times. It just comes and goes.
but I do feel like I have the capabilities
and the, the tools to allow me to progress still. And. Like, lift myself up. I
have actually been, keeping occupied as well with, taking an online course that
I enrolled at the beginning of the pandemic. So I enrolled with Yale
university, to do a course, which is the science of wellbeing.
So it's, more of like the psychology of the
good life. so it's basically teaching you how to be happier in your daily life,
and it makes you, some of the assignments that are given is to write down
moments of gratitude. savor those moments that you absolutely, feel like you
are very comfortable and absolutely love having those certain moments and to
just really stay in the present and think about that moment that is giving you
joy. So that has helped with the, just feeling low part of a challenge during
the pandemic.
Another challenge that I would say is just
all of the, all of the connections that I am trying to make work because I'm
actually, I'm actually a student with College Boreal. But I'm also, just
accepted my offer with the bridging program of George Brown.
So I'm hoping to start in September, but
there's challenges and on the way to get there. So meaning that I have to still
do my eight weeks clinical placement, which we're still waiting for the
colleges of Ontario to tell my college that it's safe to, to send a students
back to the hospitals and longterm care homes to do our eight week clinical
placement.
And then after that I have to do the
comprehensive exam, which involves all the material of the two years. Then I
have to try to be able to do the licensing exam, but with George Brown and
often other colleges, they're asking for it in July or prior to the September
start date. But the nurse, the college of nurses only has exams in June and
mid September, which I can't do the June one, because I still need to do eight
weeks of clinical in order to graduate in order to be able to do that exam with
the college of nurses.
Janice Waddell: Lots of unknowns. But it also sounds like you have really. Taking a
lead for yourself and enrolling in the registering in the course that you're
taking.
That is really, it sounds like one that's
empowered you, in the midst of all the uncertainty. Lois, how about you? What
are some of the challenges with work and your academic work as well?
Lois Chui: Yeah. I think one challenge in particular that I can think of from
work is I think when, we were in the heat of COVID, and I felt as though,
nurses were getting a lot of praise for being on the front lines, and
rightfully so.
But I think as a pediatric nurse, for
myself not interacting directly with too many COVID patients, I almost felt
guilty for. The praise that people were giving, just because I felt as though
I was undeserving of it because I wasn't, directly in contact and at risk. and
I felt as though work for me was, actually a lot less heavy than before because
of all the surgeries being canceled.
So I think that was a feeling that I really
had to get over. And. Too. I reached out and talked to some of my colleagues
about it, who surprisingly unfortunately felt the same way, have this feeling
of just undeserving of the praise that we've been getting. so it's just been an
interesting feeling, as I reflect on that, just because I feel I've never felt
like that, throughout my career.
Janice Waddell: That's hard to be working as hard as you are across a number of
things. And two, because you're not in the thick of it and at high risk that
you are deserving of the praise of, of being a, a nurse in a very complicated
healthcare system right now.
Lois Chui: Yeah. So I think, one thing that, people have just reminded me of is
everyone is doing their part . So whether it's you're in the thick of it or,
not so much in the thick of it. you are still part of it.
Janice Waddell: I believe that for sure. And you know, I think being the nursing
week and also, the year of celebrating nursing and midwives, that even COVID
aside, it's a very special year
Alicia, how are you?
Alicia Kassee : I'm good. from a school standpoint, I mean, other than me having to
adapt my research to meet COVID required to meet the criteria of investigating
COVID or inquiring about COVID in order for the research ethics for even look
at that, I've been set back at least a couple months by just getting everyone
to edit it.
Review it and answer any questions before
we can get to the REB stage of my, my proposal. So that's one thing about
school or work. Otherwise, it, I mean, challenges we're adapting cause every
day we were hearing something different. Sometimes we had two different
meetings, like huddles, on a day shift with my manager saying, Hey, this is
what we've invested.
Let's do what we're doing now. Oh no, wait.
We've changed it to that. So it's been a lot of back and forth in terms of what
we're doing and how we're adapting to what's going on. the volumes were down,
as I'm sure everyone has heard. The emergency department people were not coming
so much in the month of March and April.
Now they're coming back. We're starting surgeries,
we're doing transplants again. So everything is kind of resuming to normal
volume. Which is good because, you can't keep everything on hold for such a
long time. But, in terms of challenges always wearing PPE, the entire shift is
kind of exhausting.
Wearing those masks and just trying to
figure out ways to stay hydrated and basic needs. Like you feel short of breath
while you're wearing that mask all the time. Having to don an N95 respirator,
When you're doing something like a protected code blue. And really learning how
to adopt to the new critical situations because these patients, these COVID
patients, decompensate quite quickly and having support on hand to help manage
that situation.
Limiting the number of staff, whether that
be our RTs, MDs, nurses at the bedside when we're actually doing something like
an aerosolized. Aerosolized generating procedure, which is the highest risk
for, potentially catching something that it would cope it. just limiting that,
trying to adapt to new processes.
We changed the department around
completely. So just adopting to everything that's really happening on a day to
day basis was kind of difficult. Well, but now I think we're kind of static.
We've learned as much as we possibly can. 10 within the last two or three
months at Colby has been in Canada. Also, like looking at the other countries,
what they've been doing.
So just, Trying to adapt and realizing this
is the way of life for at least a couple of months until I guess COVID goes
away or a couple of years. I don't know how long it the last and just wearing
PPE, like you don't realize how many things could potentially be contaminated.
The way you're taking everything off.
You have to be careful when you're touching
things. Just being very hypervigilant of what's going on and what you're doing
at that point is really important. It's eyeopening.
Janice Waddell: It sounds overwhelming to me to negotiate that while you're also
trying to forge ahead with your, your research and your ethics and thesis.
That's a heavy bag as well.
Amy Vodarek: Yeah , it sounds like a lot, and the PPE part sounds, you know, just
thinking about wearing that every day. My hats are off to you, but also Lois, I
just wanted to comment a little bit on what you were saying.
The fact that you go into work and that
you're, you're probably reassuring so many. Families as well who have
questions. you know, congratulate yourself on that and acknowledge the
contribution you're making, as Janice was saying.
So, I'm curious how you're taking care of
yourselves through all this.
Lois Chui: One thing that some of my friends have been doing to keep in touch
with one another. we're actually doing a plank challenge right now. and every
day we'll go on like a video call and then we'll plank for a certain number of
minutes, and then each day we'll like increase in minutes.
and then we've actually also been doing
like following YouTube workouts together and having one screen where. We have
the YouTube video playing, and then another screen where we have our friends,
like working out together. and then I, I've appreciate, I've come to appreciate
long walks. I walked to the other day, for 45 minutes to get coffee.
and I don't think, if, like, if it wasn't
COVID, I don't think I would ever do that. I would have just driven, but it's
helped me appreciate nature and helped me appreciate to get my steps in.
Amy Vodarek: That's excellent.
Janice Waddell: You're doing your planks. What's your record?
Lois Chui: so today we're going to do three minutes. We do like three minute
regular plank.
Yeah. And then, a minute and 45 seconds on
each side for side planks. And then our goal is to get up to five minutes.
Jean-Claude
Fillion: I've actually been walking as well. Trying
to do, some long walks here and there. I would say it's not that frequent. I
would say it's maybe like once every three days, maybe. So I would do that.
also I've been baking sometimes, like I was actually making, some chocolate
chip banana bread.
So I've done some of those. And then, just
like, I don't know, I find that I'm cooking more compared to eating out. but
I'm still doing the, takeout Wednesday to support the local businesses.
And then just like working on myself I
have the time where I can try to improve myself and get ready for when I'm able
to go back and be the best kind of nurse I can be for the patients.
Amy Vodarek: That's fabulous. Yeah. Alicia, how about you? How are you taking
good care?
Alicia Kassee : I think just working out at home, cause Goodlife fitness, they have
the on demand like 20 minute workouts or something like that.
So it's good. It's convenient and I can do
it in my home. And then just. Spending more time with the family, which is
lovely. And cooking a little bit more. I'm able to have more time to do that
now that I'm not traveling, you know, for meetings downtown or whatever. I'm
able to kind of do things at home, which is lovely.
Amy Vodarek: Yeah. Nice. And, and so we were kind of curious too about how your
schools or supporting you through this, and are you feeling that you're getting
the support you need from your schools? Are there things that are missing for
you?
Jean-Claude
Fillion: I would say that, we, I do feel that
there's support, with the schools.
A lot of emails going around about, the
counselor, the social worker at the campus that's willing to meet with you
through zoom and all these, excellent services are. therefore to students. So I
do sense that they are taking care of us. so I've always been a fan of what
College Boreal does, for the students because they've, they've always taken
care of us, in any situation, even if it's just a daily, like normal day,
there's always some support.
But I do feel like there should be more.
communication on what is to come, with our program. But I mean, I understand
that everything is changing every day, and there's gotta be some meetings, to
confirm if everyone's on the same page on a certain information before
disclosing it to the students.
And all of these things are all in the
background. So I understand that they're going through. a lot of different,
preparations and meetings and trying to get us some information. And then,
something ends up changing the whole concept that they had. like let's say
when, the premier ended up announcing that we're going to be starting to open
up certain businesses.
Well, that is just changing a few things of
the expectation of when the school can possibly open and things like that. So,
I feel like it's, there should be more communication towards the students about
what's to come by under. I also understand that it's like no one's fault
really. It's just what it is and they're doing their best for us anyway.
So I, I have full faith in them.
Amy Vodarek: Thank you. Alicia, how about you?
Alicia Kassee : think I'm in a unique situation where I'm done all of my courses,
thankfully. So I'm just on the research. It's a component of my thesis. So I'm
able to, I have been collaborating with my supervisors online for almost a year
now. So we haven't really had that many in person meetings anyways, just cause
there's so many.
but people on my committee, but, I think.
There are tons of supports available to us, like the faculty, because I 'm at
Ryerson, some of the facts of community service, sends us stuff. our program
administrator administrator sends us information as well, which is great. and
then. I think Ryerson itself is actually sending us information regards to
faculty, university-wide supports, which is great.
So I feel supported from that end. And also
I'm privileged enough to, have supports from UHN as well, which I know is a
separate discussion, but. I think it's great and it doesn't affect my schooling
as much just because everything I'm doing kind of is already online. So I am
also privileged, I guess, than most other students actually need to go to
classes and have that hands on experience.
Jean-Claude
Fillion: I just wanted to also add, something that
I praise the college for is that when we were first in the shutdown of the, of
the schools, about like a week later, when they trying to figure out how
they're going to be doing, the online courses and everything, they actually
called every single student.
On their cell phones that they had on file
for those students and actually ask them if they had internet access, if they
had a computer and all of these things in order to, to actually accommodate for
those people. And then also the, the social worker, the counselor of the campus
actually called every single student as well to see how everyone was doing.
So I feel like that was really good
support, but they had, but I mean, I think that's because we were such, we're
such a small campus. We're in Toronto. we're on the third floor of the Toronto
star building, so it's not that big a, so I think that was the, the, The reason
why they were able to do that.
Amy Vodarek: Yeah. But what a nice, just like what a gesture to make sure that
you feel taken care of.
And Lois, how about you? Thank you so
much.
Lois Chui: Yeah. I think I would agree with what Alicia has been saying in
terms of I'm feeling supported. Yeah. I think even, for my spring and summer
courses, the professors have modified their classes and To give you an example,
one has said, I know that. Typically taking a three hour courses long enough,
but having to do it online is a lot. So she's modified it in the sense that,
she would make, half of the class, an online lecture that we can log in
whenever we're available to. And then the other hour and a half is, in class
through zoom. And so I've really appreciated how a lot of the professors have
been, adapting to this new model and, very accommodating to us as well.
Amy Vodarek: That's a, that's a great strategy. I'm actually taking notes on that
one. That's good. That's good. You know, another question that we have, if you,
if you're still with us with some energy to answer them as, you know, what.
You know what, what do you see as
possibilities going forward from this experience? Has it changed anything for
how you view your career, or what are you learning about this, about, about
your career choice in nursing and what, you know, what, has anything changed
when you think about your career? And maybe Lois since you've just ended with
you. We'll start with you this time.
Lois Chui: Yeah, for sure. I think, it'll be very interesting to see, In terms
of healthcare policies and funding, how that will change, over time after this,
we see the effects of longterm care and staffing, and the same goes with, a lot
of inpatient care hospitals.
and I just wonder how that will, change
after COVID. in light of seeing the work that frontline work there's, are
doing. I think for me, this experience has definitely solidified, how United
this profession is, that no matter, what unit you're working on or how many
years of experience you have, there's just a sense of comradery that everyone's
in it together.
And even not only just with nurses, but
With, respiratory therapists and with doctors. And there's just a sense of
family. And. Yeah. It's been really refreshing, to no, that even in this, state
where it's very high stress and, a lot of people, people have various things
going on in their home life as well, that they're able to come to work and give
it their all and, just collaborate with one another to no help people get
better.
Amy Vodarek: That's amazing.
And Alicia, how about you?
Alicia Kassee : For me, my goal was always management. I'm seeing how multilayered,
responses, especially within an acute care environment, how, various levels of
a specialist have to gather like infectious diseases. It's like all of these
people need to really come together in order to, See how they can best help
with the current situation and how we're able to mitigate any negative effects associated
with that. How we're able to do the best that we can for staff, the patients,
and everyone else that we're interacting with in a healthcare environment. So
it's really opened up my eyes to how important it is to have, all of these
people involved in decision making sitting at command tables and really, being
active participants in what is going on, especially within the media and seeing
how, various levels of government are collaborating. And that's really
refreshing to see that they're putting aside their differences and kind of
looking towards. like humanity as a greater whole and forgetting about the
other agendas that were on the table and it's really refreshing. So I'm hoping
I can use that knowledge and bring that towards that career in leadership.
Amy Vodarek: Yeah. Fabulous. Jean-Claude, how about you?
Jean-Claude
Fillion: I feel like the. career, pathway with
nursing.
I feel like it's actually going to, there's
a better, there's like a very big pride in knowing that I'm stepping into a career
where, where. We are part of the, the care of a patient and we're one of the
first bases that they see. so just setting the tone right off the bat, I think
that that's such an important role in the healthcare industry and also the fact
that.
The government has been shining the light
on nursing, nursing individuals and staff and just trying to push more for
development of healthcare systems in the country and also the province. I feel
like that is just setting us up for a great outcome in the future. so I, I'm
really eager to step forward into that and knowing that there's a lot of
support out there that's coming into play. And, the government has us, in good
intentions and everything, so they have our backs and they're working hard to
give us the best conditions, for the future.
Amy Vodarek: Yeah, you guys are incredible
Janice Waddell: If you represent, the nursing students and whether those are
undergraduate students were at whatever level of education and practice, your
resilience is, it's so encouraging thank you so much for joining us and
sharing your thoughts and ideas with us.
Amy Vodarek: we're in such good hands knowing that you are, you are our future.